Amex CEO: More Card ‘Refreshes’ (& Fee Hikes) Are Coming Soon

[Zoostation1]

@Aim_HighFair enough! My only Amex is BCP and I don't travel in a way that makes MR points valuable enough for me.  In my situation it's been easier to be in Capital One ecosystem and while I may not get as good of redemptions I'm satisfied for the most part.  As my profile grows and I decide on some international  travel that may change, but right now C1 is good to me and has my best CLs too.

[Zoostation1]

@Carrington59I don't have the MR cards but I absolutely disagree lol. I HATE the coupon book method Amex is using, but if they were to just straight up remove benefits and raise the fee they'll be at a net loss relative to where they are now. I don't see the market supporting fewer goodies plus a higher fee.  They may get away with more but harder to use credits (for now at least) but they won't be able to pass off a big fee hike with less benefits and expect to make equal or more money.  It will make some customers happy, but given that it's at the expense of the bottom line it's nto really a good solution imo.

[Carrington59]

@Zoostation1 Ya I don't think they would ever do it. Obviously implementing a change like that would lead to significant closures from customers which would hurt them. But for a good portion of their cards (both MR and co-branded), even with some credits that are difficult to use or annoying, it isn't too difficult to break even (depending on organic spend) leading to oversaturation in lounges, loyalty programs, etc.

[IntegerIntrovert]

I have two more years till lifetime platnium at Marriott. Then I'm ditching my two Amex Marriott cards. I'll probably keep the Amazon since it's $0 AF.

[longtimelurker]

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@redpat wrote:

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@redpat wrote:

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It's the same people that say they don't eat at McDonalds......

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What's "McDonalds"?

(OK, as a vegan I really don't go there, at least in the US.  Elsewhere they do have real vegan options)

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LTL, my condolences being vegan.

But you did go to MickeyD's before becoming vegan.

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Actually no, I never did.  Never appealed.  Now as a non-vegan student in London, KFC at 3am after some drinks and a few games of pinball, sure.  (Yes, this was the 70s.  For the younger readers, pinball was a kind of video game, without the computer or screen or keyboard, but, well too hard to explain)

[Dilbert934]

We fly paid first class everywhere, so the fees for the Skymiles Platinum and Reserve are more than offset by the companion certificates.

Platinum - Book me in Main and wife is BOGO.  Pay upgrade difference for both
Reserve - Book me in FC and the wife is BOGO

One of our regular restaurants is a Resy participant, so we get separate checks.  She pays with the platinum as an AU ($10 credit) and I pay with the Reserve ($20)

Not a huge hotel loyalist and we also stay at some smaller mom and pop hotels sometimes, so we eat up the $200 and $150 Delta Stays credits.

We rideshare into downtown on accasion so we can both partake in Wine (she) and Bourbon (Me) imbibement.  The credits help a little with that.

Our Global Entry was paid for via the two cards.

Both cards fit into our lifestyle without having to alter any of our normal habits to take advantage of the perks.  Well worth the $1k/yr to us.

[Rogue46]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@redpat wrote:

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@redpat wrote:

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It's the same people that say they don't eat at McDonalds......

---

What's "McDonalds"?

(OK, as a vegan I really don't go there, at least in the US.  Elsewhere they do have real vegan options)

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LTL, my condolences being vegan.

But you did go to MickeyD's before becoming vegan.

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For the younger readers, pinball was a kind of video game, without the computer or screen or keyboard, but, well too hard to explain)

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This made me laugh way too much.. 

[notmyrealname23]

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@Aim_High wrote:

I'm not against the high AFs, per se.  And I'm not against having credits that help to offset it.   The overall value of a card in the end is what matters.  But IMO, the whole idea with an AF and credits should be to motivate the consumer to USE their card more heavily and make it a daily driver.   So the way AMEX approaches the AF/credits is disingenuous.   I feel like they are purposefully trying to work against their customers to optimize AF spoilage while an opposite tactic would be more motivating to many of us.  I've often posted about this on the Blue Cash Preferred, where no one ever gets a NET return of the advertised 6% (GROSS return) on groceries between the burden of the AF on one end and the $6K cap leading to 1% returns on the other.  Before streaming, it's only 4.41%. 

For another example, they've shown they can make money off a high AF card like the Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant ($650 AF) that credits $25 monthly or $300 annually on non-specific restaurant charges monthly.  But the Gold card dining/ride share credits are much more narrow.  If they did the same thing on the Gold card while perhaps adding at least one other useful annual credit (maybe $200 airline fee credit, similar to what they used to have when I first got the Gold and before they shuffled the credits?), it might be worth it to pay as much as $500 for the Gold instead of $250 and you wouldn't feel like they were playing so many games.   Then maybe enhance the rewards a little so you'd get not only 4x dining + groceries, but also 3x on ALL travel, 2x everything else with a higher AF and more useful credits.   The Gold just wouldn't have the 5x airfare and lounge benefits of Platinum.   Maybe offer some upgraded travel protections and that would be a killer card, even at that high AF. 

Whatever they do, I think they need to stop making such frequent changes to their cards if they want to build more card loyalty.  Its no wonder they accuse so many of churning the bonus by cancelling their cards when they keep the targets moving. 

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To be honest, the fee change + benefit adds to the AMEX Delta cards were intriguing enough for me to go from "I'll probably kill off my AMEX Delta Gold because I am bumping into the AMEX 5 credit card limit" to "I'll switch it to the business card, collect a SUB and keep it long term because that Delta hotel benefit + 15% off Delta mileage redemptions is actually worth $150 to me".

Very much agreed on AMEX Gold though, I've decided to flip over to a dual Custom Cash 5x (first $500 on groceries/dining) + Savor One or Citi Premier 3x (after) setup because that $10 off of Shake Shack or Grubhub just isn't working out for me (or my waistline), absent a compelling retention offer.

[AwsiDooger]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@redpat wrote:

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It's the same people that say they don't eat at McDonalds......

---

What's "McDonalds"?

(OK, as a vegan I really don't go there, at least in the US.  Elsewhere they do have real vegan options)

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I haven't been to McDonald's in 6 years, and seldom period. For a while 6-8 years ago they had McChicken for $1 and regular hamburgers for 59 cents on Wednesdays and Sundays.  I could drive away with 6 sandwiches and a small fries for not far above $6. These days it would probably be at least triple that amount.

Otherwise summer 1984 was the only prior stretch I cared about McDonald's. They had a scratch card promotion for the Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. The Simpsons did a spoof on this a decade or so later. Once the Russians and other eastern bloc nations boycotted, the United States' medal opportunity soared in one event after another. I was brand new to Las Vegas, fresh out of college. There was a McDonald's less than 75 yards from the Stardust sportsbook. And the employees at that McDonald's didn't want the hassle of handing out one card per customer. They would shovel a dozen just to get rid of them for the day. Consequently many of us had at least 100 cards. One tap out after another suddenly cared about men's 100 breaststroke -- for example -- and whether it would enable a free Big Mac. 

Otherwise I'm shocked that so many users here have annual fee cards. I thought that would be avoided, just like paying interest. The only one I've ever had was acquired 2 months ago, taking advantage of that Blue Cash Everyday to Preferred "upgrade" with $150 bonus and $95 fee waived the first year. I already don't like it and can't wait to transfer back. There are simply too many ways to do better. I just switched streaming away from that card to take advantage of a superior short term return on a different card.

Travel cards are no good for me, for the same reason. I don't want to be dependent on one brand or chain. There are always budget hotels that far exceed their nameplate. Stuffy types will never bother to check for that. I sample the reviews carefully during the wee hours, especially recent reviews, and am never disappointed. I just booked 24 days at $62 average counting tax, not including all the cash back from coupon sites and the Chase Freedom cards at 5% this quarter. Priceline will be best for one city, Expedia the next city, maybe Choice the following one. 

[longtimelurker]

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@AwsiDooger wrote:

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Otherwise I'm shocked that so many users here have annual fee cards. I thought that would be avoided, just like paying interest. 

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Others have made that comparison, and IMO it is just wrong.   If you can pay in full, paying interest would make sense if you have a better use for the money  and that's why some take full advantage on 0% APR offers, pay the minimum and "invest" (perhaps merely by putting it in a high-yield savings account) but outside that, usually credit card interest far outweighs potential earnings.

On the other hand, annual fees can make sense, if properly calculated.   It is also easy to get it wrong.    In the case of BCP vs BCE, it's easy to calculate (assuming just grocery spend) how much you need to spend to make the increased earning rate overcome the annual fee, but this is simplistic as other free alternatives can be used too.

But for a number of cards, given the right spending pattern, AF cards can come way ahead of the alternatives.   For some it will be the Amex charge cards, especially if the "coupon book" spend is in fact organic.  In my case the Altitude Reserve clearly earns its fee for example.   

In contrast, except in the case where you can do better, money paid in interest is just wasted

ETA:  I think part of the issue is that some cards, especially in the rebuilder/poor credit space do charge annual/monthly fees for no benefit to the user (basically a fee for the issuer having to take additional risks).   So at least in the past, there were tons of posts about getting say Capital One to change a Quicksilver that charged an AF to one without a fee, with exactly the same rewards.  And yes, this is much more  like paying interest, in certain circumstances you have no choice but to play along (in the worst case with fee AND interest!)