Yea im pretty sure Hilton has been worth 0.5 cpp for a long time that is why the earnings are the way they are. Marriott on the otherhand is lagging behind Hilton with earnings as it seems they keep devaluing their program.
I think the Hilton Free Nights are a way better value than Marriott or Hyatt as you dont have to fool around with categories or points value, all you need is standard points pricing available.
Yes, but not "effective" AF. Retail yes.
In my head they all pay for themselves, but the AMEX's will be cut next year when I hit lifetime platinum (clown).
USB AR $400 / $75
AMEX Brilliant Marriott $650?/ $300 eff less free night and Plat status
AMEX Business Marriott $125 eff $0 after free night
Citi Costco $60 (Membership is required)
Yes, $1250
- Amex Gold - $250
- Dining Credits - $120
- Rideshare/Delivery Credit - $120
- 4x dining points
- Total tangible ROI - $240
- Deta Amex Skymiles Platinum - $350
- Resy Credit - $120
- Delta Stays Credit - $150
- Rideshare Credit - $120
- Companion Main Cabin ticket - $250+
- Global Entry Fee - $20/yr Amortized
- $2500 MQD Headstart
- Total tangible ROI - $660+
- Delta Amex Skymiles Reserve - $650
- Resy Credit - $240
- Delta Stays Credit - $200
- Rideshare Credit - $120
- Companion First Class ticket - $600+
- SkyClub access w/4 guest passes - $40 in drinks every visit
- Global Entry Fee - $20/yr Amortized
- Centurion Club accss for primary member
- Hertz Presidents Circle status
- Matched by Avis, National, and Enterprise
- Total tangible ROI - $1220+
We use all the credits without going out of our way to do so. The MQD headstart also gives you instant Silver Medallion status with Delta
Yes, I do pay more than $1K in AFs, @Vash1. Since I've added some cards and others have changed their fees, I just added up my current AFs and they total $2,962. (Chase Sapphire Reserve, Bank of America Premium Rewards Elite, NFCU Flagship Rewards, AMEX Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant, Barclay's AAdvantage Aviator Red, CITI AAdvantage Executive, USAA Eagle Navigator, Chase IHG Rewards Premier, AMEX Hilton Surpass, AMEX Marriott Bonvoy Business.)
I've also closed several AF cards over the past few years. Back about 30+ years ago, it wasn't uncommon to have nominal AFs on basic non-rewards credit cards, although they might have also had better Visa or Mastercard perks, lower overall fees, or better standard APRs. That began to change as the card market became more competitive. Then I went through a period like many on the forums where I totally avoided any AF cards. I broke that rule when I added the Chase Sapphire Reserve in 2018 and I've been adding more ever since. I've found that as long as I'm getting sufficient value back from my cards, they may be worth paying those AFs.
Unlike some who keep spreadsheets or meticulously track their ROI, I don't do any of that detail. But I do make rough periodic calculations to make sure I'm at least recouping my AFs through credits or the equivalent value of perks/rewards. I don't typically think of my AF cards as a group. Instead, I evaluate each one separately to see if I think it's pulling its own weight. This was how I reached my conclusion to close my AMEX Gold card after trying out it and MR points for a couple of years.
Some of my cards pay for themselves better than others. And many of my lenders continue to challenge me with changes to their programs, which requires me to do an updated cost-benefit analysis. For one example, the CITI AAdvantage Executive card AF increased last year from $450 to $595. Ouch. However, there were credits added which allowed up to $360 in credits on GrubHub, Avis Rental cars, and LYFT. Even though I don't use LYFT, the $240 in credits on the others effectively lowered that AF for me if I use them all. So I'm hanging onto it and seeing how it works out in actual usage before I consider it a losing card. Of course, the primary benefit with this card is the included access to the AA Admiral's Club lounges when traveling AA. Another example is the changes AMEX made to the Marriott Bonvoy Brilliant a few years ago. While the AF increased from $450 to $650 and the credits were changed, I've gotten a lot of value from the automatic Platinum Elite loyalty status which sweetens the pot. So all-in-all, I think I'm coming out ahead on this one also, even at the higher fee.
I would advise anyone contemplating an AF card to be ready to periodically reevaluate it for value received. A card that works for you and your lifestyle today may not be the same value in two or more years. If you're not willing to do this and be willing to close or product-change a card later, don't apply for AF cards.
@longtimelurker wrote:
@Aim_High wrote:.
I would advise anyone contemplating an AF card to be ready to periodically reevaluate it for value received. A card that works for you and your lifestyle today may not be the same value in two or more years. If you're not willing to do this and be willing to close or product-change a card later, don't apply for AF cards.
Definitely! I would also say you should do it for all cards, as new cards may well do better than your old favourites. But it's especially important for AF cards where you may actually be losing money rather than just missing opportunities for more....
I've definitely been evaluating the AF value for my two Amex cards. And I was an AF hater before this.
The Delta Gold was a first year AF waived upgrade offer, still have six months left. Considering the $100 Stays credit, and waived checked bag fees for myself and passengers, that more than makes up for the $150 if I were to renew in my opinion. Also, if I make it my everyday spender, it ultimately becomes around a 4%, 3% Delta card with the $200 annual spend bonus ($10k spend in a year is probably my cap, I'm not a big spender). Definitely considering keeping it and not downgrading.
The Hilton Honors Surpass was a no lifetime language offer for 155k points and I seem to be finding value in it as well for the $150 AF if I were to renew. The quarterly $50 statement isn't too hard to achieve, and the category point earning makes it worth considering to renew and not downgrade as well.
$300 in AFs is enough for me, though 
